Legislature(2001 - 2002)
03/28/2001 01:07 PM House JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 52 - COMPACT FOR ADULT OFFENDER SUPERVISION Number 0059 CHAIR ROKEBERG announced the first item of business, HOUSE BILL NO. 52, "An Act relating to the Interstate Compact for Adult Offender Supervision and the State Council for Interstate Adult Offender Supervision; amending Rules 4 and 24, Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure; and providing for an effective date." [There had been a full hearing on HB 52 at a previous meeting.] Number 0073 CANDACE BROWER, Program Coordinator/Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Corrections (DOC), came forward at the request of Chair Rokeberg and reminded members that HB 52 proposes a new compact to replace the 1937 interstate compact; it is intended to promote offender accountability and to better keep track of offenders across state lines. The compact is an agreement among states that adopt it, with the goal of better supervising offenders and protecting victims and communities. Number 0171 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN referred to [Article VII of the compact, beginning on page 12 of HB 52]. He stated his understanding that this national commission, with representatives appointed from each state, can have the force of law in states that are members of this compact. He objected to passage of the bill for that reason, saying he believes it undermines Alaska's sovereign powers as a state. He explained that he has a problem with an entity that isn't defined in the state's constitution having the ability of essentially making a law, or something with the force of law, in Alaska. He said he also believes it violates the Tenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Number 0371 MS. BROWER replied that if a rule that the commission made is in opposition to the constitution, [the state] would not have to follow it. In response to further questions about the review process and whether [a bylaw under the compact] would have to be litigated to be proven unconstitutional, Ms. Brower said, "I don't know that it has to be litigated, no." She explained that the commission would hire a body to oversee the compact and act as an arbiter in disputes and problems that arise out of disagreements between states or a state's having a problem with the compact. If enough states had a problem with a particular rule, that rule could be overturned. Ms. Brower added, "If it's unconstitutional, we could argue that it's unconstitutional. And if we had a problem with the compact, we could repeal it." Number 0469 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN countered that the compact takes away what he considers to be a legislative power and delegates it to a national [commission], which will have law-making authority in Alaska that is outside of the state constitution. He said he objects to that strenuously. Number 0490 REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL remarked that he agrees with Representative Ogan, but believes the safeguards are already in [HB 52]. He asked whether the compact would "cause us to violate any of our existing laws." MS. BROWER answered, "I don't believe so." She added, "And if we have a representative available during the process of creating the bylaws, we would have representation to ... make sure that that didn't happen." REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked whether anything that caused "tension" with Alaskan law would come before [the legislature]. MS. BROWER replied, "This body would receive a report from the compact, and then, sure, it would come before this body. There will be representation from the legislation ...." REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL expressed concern that it could overrule [the legislature]; however, as far as legislative powers, he said he agreed with Representative Ogan if it could make policy that could change Alaskan law before [the legislature] had a chance to review it. MS. BROWER replied: It wouldn't change our law, but ... we would be forced to comply with the compact, with the contract or agreement. And if there was a problem with that, ... there are ways that we can deal with that, and part of that is through the compact. Number 0580 REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ made a motion to report HB 52 from committee with the attached fiscal note. CHAIR ROKEBERG pointed out that there is a new, lower fiscal note. Number 0608 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN objected. He suggested the legislature "treads in very dangerous water" when delegating law-making power to a national organization [through] a compact; he expressed doubt that members of such an organization would take an oath to defend Alaska's constitution, as Alaskan legislators do. Noting that the constitution lays out a clearly defined process, Representative Ogan said he believes the intent of the legislation is good and honorable, but on principle, the more powers that [the legislature] delegates to others, the more "we're on a slippery slope to a tyranny." Number 0675 REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ replied: This is a contract. If the constitution is so weak that it can't uphold the state's rights in any contractual negotiation, then we oughtn't be a state at all. I think the constitution is strong enough to safeguard our liberties. His fears of tyranny, I think, it's less of treading in deep water than wading in a shallow pond. REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ renewed his motion to report the bill from committee. Number 0707 CHAIR ROKEBERG explained his reasons for supporting the bill. He said the U.S. Constitution explicitly calls for the right of states to enter into compacts. While he can appreciate Representative Ogan's concern, philosophically, about granting powers to a body via contract, Chair Rokeberg said Ms. Brower makes an excellent point that representation in that rulemaking process is a safeguard "and one we should participate in." He said he doesn't agree with the argument on the fundamental constitutional and philosophical rights, but does agree with Representative Ogan on the need to safeguard rights. He suggested there is an overwhelming need for this legislation in order for Alaska to participate in "interstate trafficking of paroled prisoners and the supervision of those adult offenders." Number 0786 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked about the length of the contract and how many states are involved. MS. BROWER answered, "To be ratified, there have to be 35 states." REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ added that the existing [compact] has been in effect since the 1930s. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES expressed concern that out of 50 states, 15 states [may not] want it, but may be affected. She asked whether a state that disagrees will be a part of it anyway. MS. BROWER said no. Number 0911 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN reiterated his objection, saying it might be legal and constitutional, but that it is a bad policy call, giving the compact the ability to make laws in Alaska. REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ replied, "If the people are comfortable with us making laws, they ought to be comfortable with this organization." CHAIR ROKEBERG said he doesn't necessarily agree with that. There is clearly the constitutional right and the responsibility to enter into this compact. Number 0970 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES referred to the comment by Representative Berkowitz; she suggested the general public doesn't buy into what the legislature does, and said the consequences of legislation aren't even known until laws are passed and legislators hear from the people who are adversely affected. She said giving up that right is, to her, a little distressing. Although she wouldn't commit to future actions regarding the bill, Representative James said she would object that day. A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Meyer, Berkowitz, Kookesh, and Rokeberg voted to report HB 52 out of committee. Representatives Coghill, James, and Ogan voted against it. Therefore, HB 52 was reported from the House Judiciary Standing Committee by a vote of 4-3.
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